Report: 2011 Ford Super Duty to Get New 6.7-Liter Power Stroke V8

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Report: 2011 Ford Super Duty to Get New 6.7-Liter Power Stroke V8
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Ford is set to release a revolutionary new 6.7-liter Power Stroke turbo-diesel engine for its line of Super Duty F-Series trucks in 2011. The all-new engine promises a, “significant improvement in torque, horsepower and fuel economy,” says Ford in a press release, stating that this new F-Series Super Duty would continue to be a class leader in both payload and towing.

Numerous high-tech innovations have been employed in building this new engine, starting with a compacted graphite iron (CGI) engine block that Ford says is twice as strong as standard iron blocks. This was deemed necessary due to the increases in power output.

The new engine makes use of a Honeywell single variable turbine turbo (similar to the one found on the Porsche 911 Turbo), but takes turbo technology a step further still. Instead of one, there are two compressor wheels driven off a single turbine impeller, working like a bi-turbo setup that gives the engine a fast response time with little lag as well as the power of a larger turbo.

Visually, the new engine looks remarkably different, due to the fact that the intake and exhaust systems are the reverse of a conventional engine. The exhaust manifolds sit in the valley of the big V8 engine, while the intake manifold is on the outside. This means the cylinder heads are essentially flipped around.

By significantly reducing the amount of exhaust piping, lag is reduced considerably. Additionally, this new packaging moves the hotter elements of the engine (like the turbocharger and exhaust pipes) away from the intake areas, ensuring a constant supply of cool air to the engine. And as for that turbo, it sits in the valley between the cylinder banks. Due to its location, spool up is considerably faster and the engine’s overall balance is improved. Another major benefit of this setup is that that cab no longer has to be removed from the frame if work needs to be done on the turbo. The fuel-pump, EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) components and the thermostats are also easily accessible from the front of the vehicle.

Ford hasn’t released any specifics on the new engine but if out scientific and sophisticated brains have understood all this talk of a sequential variable turbine geometry turbo correctly, our power-loving neanderthal brains are in for a real treat when this new package makes it to market.

GALLERY: 2011 Ford Super Duty Power Stroke 6.7-Liter V8

single-shaft-turbo---c-1280.jpgsingle-shaft-turbo---w-1280.jpgpower-stroke-inboard-exhaust.gifpower-stroke-turbo-mount.gif

Official release after the jump:

All-new Ford-engineered, Ford-tested, Ford-built diesel maximizes 2011 Super Duty’s productivity

* An all-new 6.7-liter Power Stroke® V-8 turbocharged diesel engine – debuting in the 2011 Ford F-Series Super Duty® – will deliver significant improvement in torque, horsepower and fuel economy, enhancing productivity and further strengthening its position as the class leader for towing and payload * Extensive durability testing put the new Power Stroke diesel engine through the equivalent of 250,000 miles

* Industry-first single-sequential turbocharger with double-sided compressor wheel delivers fast throttle response along with the volume of air boost needed for maximum power; new engine also is biodiesel compatible up to B20

dearborn, Mich., Aug. 31, 2009 – A new era in Ford diesel technology arrives with the Ford-engineered, Ford-tested and Ford-manufactured 6.7-liter Power Stroke V-8 turbocharged diesel engine.

Debuting in the next-generation F-Series Super Duty truck, the new diesel engine will deliver significant improvements in torque, horsepower and fuel economy while adding more fueling flexibility and easily meeting stringent new emissions requirements.

The new diesel 6.7-liter engine also shares the Super Duty’s legendary reliability and durability while delivering best-in-class towing and payload.

“This all-new diesel engine has been so extensively tested both in the lab and in the real world that we’re confident we’re giving our customers the most reliable and productive powertrain available today,” said Derrick Kuzak, group vice president of Global Product Development. “Our Super Duty customers demand reliability and durability in their trucks so they can deliver the best results for their business and their customers. That’s exactly what this engine delivers.”

The diesel engine team made improvements and changes throughout the engine architecture to deliver on aggressive horsepower, torque, emissions and fuel economy targets. The 6.7-liter Power Stroke uses an “inboard exhaust” architecture, an automotive-industry first for a modern production diesel engine. It combines the best of proven technology with new, patented approaches backed by an extensive laboratory and real-world testing regimen to assure customer satisfaction.

Benefits of the new 6.7-liter Power Stroke V-8 turbocharged diesel engine include:

o First use of a compacted graphite iron (CGI) engine block in a Super Duty-class vehicle in North America; stronger than regular gray cast iron, Ford has successfully used CGI in engine blocks in products around the world. The block structure was optimized for reduced weight and maximum strength to meet the demands of higher torque and horsepower o Unique inboard exhaust and outboard intake architecture, an automotive-industry first for a modern production diesel engine, reduces overall exhaust system volume, which leads to better throttle response for the customer; additionally, reduced exhaust system surface area minimizes heat transfer to the engine compartment and improves NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) o The new engine architecture enables easier service work for all major engine components, potentially reducing down time. On turbocharger service, for example, the body/cab no longer has to be removed from the frame to access the turbo; also, the high-pressure fuel pump, EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) components and thermostats are directly accessible from the front of the vehicle o Honeywell’s single-sequential turbocharger features an industry-first double-sided compressor wheel mounted on a single shaft. The unit is uniquely center-mounted on a pedestal low in the back of the valley for improved NVH. This turbocharger design allows the single unit to deliver the benefits of a twin-turbocharger system in a smaller, more efficient package, combining the benefits of a small turbocharger (faster response) and a large turbocharger (ability to compress and force more air into the engine for more power) in one unit o The high-pressure Bosch fuel system injects fuel at up to 30,000 psi. The system delivers up to five injection events per cylinder per cycle using eight-hole piezo injectors to spray fuel into the piston bowl. The direct-injection system is calibrated and phased for optimum power, fuel efficiency and NVH o Aluminum cylinder heads for reduced weight; the mid-deck construction with dual water jackets provides increased strength and optimal cooling; also, six head bolts, instead of four as found on other engines, help improve sealing and maintain cylinder integrity even with the higher firing pressures; overall the engine is about 160 pounds lighter o Compatible up to B20 fuel, allowing greener fueling options of up to 20 percent biodiesel and 80 percent petroleum diesel

“Our Super Duty customers are no-nonsense, no-compromise individuals,” said Barb Samardzich, vice president, Global Powertrain Engineering. “Those are the attributes our team took to heart when engineering this all-new diesel engine so we can deliver ‘Built Ford Tough’ capability, reliability and enhanced productivity.”

Rugged block and proven components The capability and reliability found in the new 6.7-liter diesel engine starts with the engine block. The new Power Stroke’s block is made from compacted graphite iron (CGI), which is about twice as strong as regular gray cast iron. While this is the first use of a CGI block in North America in this class of vehicle, Ford has successfully used the material in engine blocks in other products around the world.

“Using a CGI block is the perfect solution for the new 6.7-liter Power Stroke,” said Adam Gryglak, lead 6.7-liter diesel engineering manager. “It provides the strength necessary for the increased torque and horsepower produced by our new engine, and it also offers significant weight savings.”

The diesel engine’s deep-skirted block and main bearing caps are cross-bolted for additional stiffness and to aid NVH. The cylinder heads mirror the engine’s attributes as a whole, with lighter weight combined with increased robustness: The cylinder heads are made of aluminum to save weight and, for improved sealing, feature six head bolts per cylinder versus the four head bolts found on other engines.

The cylinder heads, which feature dual water jackets, are capable of firing pressures approaching 2,600 psi. The tall water jacket works as a manifold, flowing high-velocity water for cooling and adding to the structural robustness in the head to handle the higher firing pressures. Crankshaft durability is improved through Ford’s unique undercut and fillet roll treatment to relieve stress.

The valvetrain features patented dual hydraulic lash adjustors, which improves the performance and reliability of the valvetrain by using two pushrods per cylinder instead of the conventional single pushrod, with individual rocker arms. Other proven components round out the engine hardware, including fractured-split connecting rods and a fuel system capable of generating 30,000 psi to feed the common-rail direct-injection fuel system.

The oil pan, which bolts to the transmission, also acts as a structural member for improved powertrain stiffness and adds to Ford’s legacy of virtually bulletproof lower-engine architecture.

‘Built Ford Tough’ testing protocol to ensure durability The testing protocol developed for the 6.7-liter Power Stroke V-8 turbocharged diesel incorporates the most rigorous engine tests found in Ford globally to ensure 250,000-mile durability. Extensive CAD (computer-aided design) and CAE (computer-aided engineering) work was completed to identify any potential challenges before hardware was created, which not only is time efficient but also helps ensure quality at the outset. Further, a comprehensive examination of warranty and quality tools was used to determine the expected failure modes for every component and system.

Customer data, including driving styles, road types and vehicle usage (towing and payload), also played a key role in developing the testing program that best replicated Super Duty use.

Components were torture-tested in the laboratory with a regimen designed to exceed what even the harshest user might dish out. Engines literally ran continuously for hundreds of hours. Finally, a battery of in-vehicle, real-world tests validated the work done in the laboratories.

The strict testing work also ensured the new engine is B20 compatible, which allows customers an environmentally responsible fueling option of using blends up to 20 percent biodiesel and 80 percent petroleum diesel. Durability cycles were run on multiple blends of diesel fuel to ensure the robustness of the system.

“These cross-functional tests give us the full spectrum of Super Duty customers – from those who run their trucks at maximum power with a maximum load for long periods to those who use them more in a start-stop mode,” said Ed Waszczenko, lead engine durability engineer.

All-new design for all-new engine One of the obvious visual differences in the new 6.7-liter Power Stroke V-8 turbocharged diesel engine is the layout of the pipes. The exhaust manifolds, for example, reside in the valley of the engine instead of outboard, while the intake is outboard of the engine. The cylinder heads are essentially flipped around in comparison with previous V-8 engine architectures.

This unique layout – an automotive-industry first for a modern production diesel engine – has several advantages. First, the overall exhaust system volume is reduced, meaning air can be fed to the single turbocharger quicker for faster spool up and reduced lag, resulting in improved throttle response for the customer. The improved packaging also places components that need to be in cooler air away from hot exhaust pipes, resulting in better thermal management and, by extension, better fuel economy.

“The physical size of the system is smaller, but more importantly, the air-handling part of the system is considerably smaller and that translates directly into the responsiveness of the engine,” said Gryglak, noting that the volume of the exhaust system feeding the turbocharger is smaller by about 50 percent because of the inboard architecture.

Combining two turbochargers in one package The single-sequential turbocharger – an industry first – is key to the new diesel engine’s performance. The unit has two compressor wheels driven off one turbine impeller. This approach combines the benefits of a single inertia wheel – faster response without lag – with the thrust of a larger turbocharger, with the ability to force more compressed air into the engine for more power. The engine’s smaller exhaust volume combined with a corresponding smaller intake volume and smaller turbocharger creates a system that is quicker to boost, more responsive and better able to deliver horsepower and torque, especially at the low end, when the customer demands it.

The turbocharger includes an advanced variable nozzle turbine, which enables variable vane pitch angles, driving optimal turbine power to achieve optimal boosting levels for all operating conditions. The single shaft ensures the transition is seamless. The unit – compact in dimensions – is uniquely center-mounted on a patented pedestal low in the back of the valley instead of hung off the block, which helps balance the system and aids NVH characteristics.

Combustion system clean and powerful The combustion system is the heart of the new 6.7-liter Power Stroke V-8 turbocharged diesel engine and in many ways encapsulates the careful balancing act the Ford team achieved in terms of power, fuel economy and reduced emissions. The key factor in the next round of federal emissions standards, which begin in 2010, is the reduction of oxides of nitrogen (NOx). To help reduce NOx, the new Power Stroke burns cleaner, thanks to an innovative way Ford developed to cool the exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) to efficiently recycle the combustion gases in the system.

Ford’s system runs the engine with the least amount of oxygen possible in order to reduce NOx without degrading performance and fuel economy. Ford’s solution runs the EGR through a two-step process utilizing separate cooling sources, something not typically seen. The end result is the EGR is brought into the intake at a lower temperature, which means more of it can be utilized, creating greater efficiency throughout the system.

A unique piston bowl design and the high-pressure fuel-injection equipment are huge enablers in achieving the balance of power and lower emissions. The system can deliver up to five injection events per cylinder per cycle, while eight holes in the injector spray fuel into the bowl.

The compressed-air ignition unique to diesels is aided by pilot fuel injections before the piston reaches the top, allowing the charge to heat up even hotter than what you get under normal compression.

“Then when the main injection occurs, we can mitigate NVH because we have a slower ignition process,” said Gryglak. “When the fuel burns, it doesn’t burn with a traditional pop or bang. The direct-injection system is calibrated and phased for optimum power, fuel efficiency and NVH.”

The new 6.7-liter Power Stroke V-8 turbocharged engine features instant-start glow plugs, allowing quick start even in extremely cold temperatures.

How the new Power Stroke meets new emissions standards The new 6.7-liter Power Stroke V-8 turbocharged diesel will employ an aftertreatment system to help comply with 2010 federal regulations to reduce nitrogen-oxide levels in diesel emissions by more than 80 percent compared with the previous standard. The Ford aftertreatment system is a three-stage process; a key component is the use of Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF).

Injection of DEF to reduce NOx is a proven technology that’s been used throughout the automotive industry. Unlike other solutions used to control NOx, the DEF system allows the diesel engine to run at its optimum range in terms of fuel mixture. Some systems require the engine to run richer – which can be harmful to diesel engines – in order to control the NOx.

Step One: Cleaning and Heating – The first step in cleaning the diesel exhaust occurs when the exhaust stream enters the Diesel Oxidation Catalyst (DOC). The role of the DOC is twofold. First, it converts and oxidizes hydrocarbons into water and carbon dioxide. This conversion happens at about 250 degrees Celsius.

Second, the DOC is used to provide and promote heat, using specific engine management strategies, into the exhaust system. Through appropriate thermal management, this heat increases the conversion efficiency of the downstream subsystem(s) in reducing emissions.

Step Two: Knocking Out the NOx – The next step in the process is what’s known as Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR). In this process, the NOx in the exhaust stream is converted into water and inert nitrogen, which is present in the atmosphere and harmless. Before the exhaust gas enters the SCR chamber, it is dosed with DEF, an aqueous solution that is approximately 67.5 percent water and 32.5 percent pure urea.

When heated, the DEF splits into ammonia and carbon dioxide. These molecules are atomized, and vaporized, then enter a mixer that resembles a corkscrew. This twist mixer evenly distributes the ammonia within the exhaust flow. The ammonia enters the SCR module, which contains a catalyzed substrate, and through chemical reactions combines and converts the NOx and ammonia into the harmless inert nitrogen and water. Dosing occurs between 200 and 500 degrees Celsius.

Step Three: Scrubbing Away the Soot – The final part of the cleansing system for the diesel exhaust gas involves the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF). The DPF traps any remaining soot, which is then periodically burned away, known as regenerating, when sensors detect the trap is full. The regeneration process sees temperatures in excess of 600 degrees Celsius to burn away soot.

Quieter, more refined diesel sound for improved NVH Customers of the 6.7-liter Power Stroke turbocharged diesel engine will notice a quieter, more refined sound. Improvements to the combustion system, structural integrity of the compacted graphite iron block and the single turbocharger mounted to the engine block account for many of the NVH improvements.

Specific design upgrades were made to both the piston and the piston bowl to optimize the combustion process, which features a two-stage combustion event instead of a single-injection event, causing harsh, sudden and loud combustion. Instead, a starter or pilot injection of fuel begins the compression process before the main injection.

The result is smoother combustion and a more refined sound for the customer. When at idle, two pilot injection events are used to make the firing process even smoother and aid in quietness. The “ticking” of the high-speed injectors also is masked by specially designed covers on the engine.

Mounting the turbocharger from the center housing directly to the block provided several advantages as well in terms of NVH.

“When turbochargers vibrate, it can lead to other parts of the vehicle vibrating,” said Scott DeRaad, engine NVH engineer. “The exhaust system, for example, is directly attached to the turbocharger. So when the turbocharger vibrates a lot, the exhaust system vibrates too and that’s disturbing to the customer. Bolting the turbocharger directly to the block eliminates that concern.”

Using one turbocharger, instead of two operating in series or sequentially, helped solve some NVH challenges as well.

“Having one turbocharger eliminates the air-handling noises – the whooshes – as the engine switches from one turbo to the next turbo,” DeRaad said. “Our turbocharger also has ball bearings that pilot the shaft in the turbo, which helps eliminate the potential for the shaft of the turbocharger to gyrate in its housing, which can create noise.”

Other improvements include the addition of two resonators in the intake system as well as a third resonator near the air cleaner.

“We’ve been able to tune the diesel intake system to give us the sound we wanted,” DeRaad said. “It’s now a nice complement to the engine.”

Just as the new 6.7-liter Power Stroke V-8 turbocharged diesel engine is the perfect complement to the 2011 Ford Super Duty, delivering both capability and reliability.

“Developing the new 6.7-liter Power Stroke V-8 turbocharged diesel engine was an awesome endeavor,” Gryglak said. “After all the engineering and testing, we’re confident this engine will ensure the new Super Duty continues its leadership in capability, reliability and productivity.”

  • Matt

    After the problematic 6.0 and 6.4 engines, I’m skeptical of this new 6.7. I own two trucks, one with a 7.3 IDI and the other is a 7.3 Powerstroke. Many who are shopping for diesel trucks will only buy a 7.3 Powerstroke because of the problems with the newer engines. Ford needs to do some serious testing with heavy towing to make sure this engine isn’t going to seize up or exhibit some of the many problems that were seen with it’s 2 predecessors.

  • Greg Johnson

    Wish they were coming to Australia. Love my 2003 7.3, but this new motor sound awsome !!!!!!!!

  • David B. Vaupel

    Being a Master Certified Diesel Technition in the Ford Dealership Industry leads me to believe this engine might just be promising by reading all the specs.
    The aluminum heads though leads me to believe it may cause cracked heads if the engine is overheated to it’s limit though.
    Should have some sort of overheating protection limit sensor to protect the heads from extreme overheating conditions.
    Just my theory though.

  • Larry Burkett

    I wish the had come up with this new motor before I bought my 2008.
    It sounds like a great motor, and if they want someone to test one pulling a heavy 5th wheel, they can put one in my truck.

  • Darrell McKenney

    Who Makes the new 6.7 Ford engine? I hope it isn’t International. My 2004 250 6.0 is costing me a small fortune.

  • larry

    after the price increase of the diesel option for 2010 expect this one to be about $9000.00

  • alan

    No mention of what kind of transmission is to be teamed up with all the alleged power. Ford has proved ( 6.0/6.4) that the first year is not the year to buy. When they come up with something as dependable as my old 7.3 maybe I will consider a Ford again.

  • john herring

    why can’t they just go back to the old 7.3lt diesel engine with some new stuff like putting the exhuast on the top of the head just wondering cause the 7.3 powerstroke was the best motor that they have ever made to put in a 1 ton ot 3/4 ton

  • Floyd Young

    New engines highlight 2011 Super Duty – Cleaner diesel, Ford Work Solutions boost appeal – Journal Driving Staff
    “The V-8’s large bore (102 mm) allows for larger intake and exhaust valves, and the short stroke (95 mm) allows higher engine speed for increased horsepower.”

    MY VIEW:
    I don’t want a truck engine to need high rpm to develope power, I want my engine to pull at low engine speed. I will gladly watch the pyrometer on hills and mountain grades.
    V-8 configuration is the limiting factor for a work truck engine. Cummins has a 107 mm bore and a 124 mm stroke in an inline six cylinder configuration. The over square/under square factor is critical in providing maximum mechanical advantage for producing higher torque at low engine speeds. Truck work engines are not used like racing car high rpm engines. I wonder what the Ford and GM engineers are smoking or are they deliberately deceiving ignorant truck buyers. I am not a V-8 fan and I would buy a BMW 535i if I could afford it. I am partial to inline engines period because they have low end torque. V-8 engines are gutless until rpm is raised to create some inertia in the flywheel.
    My diesel manual tranny truck is used for moderate to heavy pulling or it is parked in the shop, and I use a 1998 GMC 1500 for light local duties. I use a 2009 Malibu for a local run-a-bout and for traveling. The only traveling my diesel will do is if there is a 5th-wheel, car trailer or goose neck flat deck in tow. I am a jack of all trades, and master of none.

  • lyle lawrence

    I own a first line 2008 f350,6.4 diesal,crew cab,2×4.
    We pull a 5th wheel RV( LOADED IN EXCESS OF 16,000 LBS.Its our full time home.The truck is amazing pulling steep grades and just as amazing carrying us down steep grades.Just tap the brake pedaltogear dowm or let the automatic braking tow-package do its job.
    Current mileage is 65,ooo miles.Fuel economy 17.9 m/g unloaded, loaded we average 10 m/g.
    Only problem we’ve had was the original cooling rad had to be replaced .And i’ve had air bags to help carry the load we pull. Only improvement I would like to see would be the air cleaner intake. Current one captures all the bugs, as its current configuration faces directly ahead allowing ram air.Suggestion bring in dual air flow from the side vents currently placed as decoration on each fender.

  • Charles Kulp

    I pull a 7500+ pound travel trailer and currently use a 1997 7 passenger E-350 wagon with the V-10. I hope Ford will put the 6.7 PSD back into the passenger vans.

    Ford

  • Tony N Wichita

    I heard it was a 6.3L and Ford is building it in house. I would stay away from it the first year or two. For that matter in a year or two they will come out with different diesel. If I drove a Ford I would be mad at how many time they came out with different power plants. When over the road trucks don’t use V-8 diesels I don’t understand why ford is dead set using V-8 in pick-ups.

  • Scooter

    I’ll take the best of the three, a Ford truck, a Dodge Cummins, & Chevy’s Allison Transmission. Then you have a bullet proof truck that will go a million miles.

  • Ray McDonald

    I go back a few years, and remember when Lincoln came out with its 317 OHV engine in 1952. The exhaust manifolds on top of the engine burned the paint on the hood. Good luck.
    Ray Mac.

  • Shipper

    This is a Ford engine; not an International. The reason they quit the 7.3 was because it couldn’t meet EPA standards. The problems with the International 6.0 and the 6.4 were why Ford decided to design and built their own engine-they couldn’t do any worse. I’m surprised they stayed with International as long as they did. I assume it was because of contractual reasons. Ford’s reputation is on the line with this engine and I’ll bet its as good as they say. I’ll stay with Ford if for no other reason than they didn’t go on the public dole (bailout) like all the others.

  • Floyd Young

    Tony N. Wichita you are an observant person as revealed by your statement of wisdom as follows: “When over the road trucks don’t use V-8 diesels I don’t understand why ford is dead set using V-8 in pick-ups.”

    Ford could have used an International inline six diesel engine from the beginning. GM started out with converted gasoline engine blocks for diesel applications in pickup trucks. I think the V-8 fad that the motoring public was brainwashed into believing is what prompted Ford and GM to go with V-8 diesel engines. GM could have used an Isusi(sp?) inline six diesel engine instead of the Duramax.

    Inline diesel engines make the best work engines. Chrysler put a light duty V configured diesel engine in their mid sized pickup to satisfy that segment of the motoring public brain washed to favor V configuration.

    We have a 1980 GMC 250 four speed manual with a 292 CID inline six gasoline engine and a GMC 250 with a four manual tranny and 350 CID gas engine. With a full bulk fuel slip tank the 292 can back into the shop over a two inch high ridge without stalling the engine if the clutch is engaged fully and the fuel feed is not pressed. The 350 backing into the same shop will stall the engine if the fuel feed is not feathered and the clutch slipped.

    Inline engines have a larger stroke than V engines and engineers are not so low in intelligence that they can not figure that out. Unfortunately, for the same displacement an inline engine must have larger bores than V engines and with a larger stroke it limits the rpm that can be safely run at. V engines with smaller bores and smaller strokes rev higher making good racing engines. Inline engines are better low speed pulling engines. Trucks are trucks and automobiles are automobiles. Whatever the manufacturers can feed the public at the lowest cost for the largest income will be the bottom line. Dodge going with Cummins inline was the smartest move ever in the diesel pickup industry and it paid off big time.

  • Slick

    OK,ENOUGH! FORD builds good engines! If you drive Dodge or GM then go away! This new model is for FORD owners. I have a 6.0 V8 and it has not had any of the problems some people are talking about. Just routine Sh.t, it has 100,000 miles of all kinds of use. And as a matter of fact the 6.4 is the best Super Duty engine yet! When I was younger, all the buses I rode going to school in the north (big city, 1970s’) were GM V8s’ Detroit Diesels, in particular.
    I agree torquy 6s’ are ok, but I personally like the sound of a V8. I also don’t think much of NASCAR, so there. I preffer F1 or SCCA stuff. I also still ride motorcycles, so my view of Performance is probably quite different. I am very impressed with the specs of the Scorpion. I even like the name. I believe FORD has done the right and intelligent thing here. I wish I could afford one today! I am however quite happy with my F250 6.0 V8 Diesel. It has a few mods and runs real sweet. It has been across this country and to Canada many times, NO Problems! Based on the last two years of 6.4 news, this is a very good engine without significant troubles, such as the 6.0 FIRST encountered, the later production years were ok. OH and Dodge guys? the 5.9 has changed more times in its lifespan than most people realize, some even in mid production years! I don’t think change is bad at all. I am eager to see the final numbers on horsepower and torque. I am sure it will be the power king for at least two years after its launch. The 6.4 is showing incredible power at the 1/4 mile and on the Dynos now. So the 6.7 aught to be outstanding in that department.
    Anyway I had to chime in as a FORD diesel owner. Merry Christmas, to all and happy motoring.

    Hans….

  • Floyd Young

    Slick, when I was younger I drove a Peterbilt with an 8V92 Detroit diesel. While pulling a moderate load in a van it could out run all the transports on the flat to rolling prairie highways, but the engine speed had to be kept above 2400 rpm.

    In the mountains while pulling a very light load that V8 two-stroke oil burner got tired by just looking at the modest inclines. If I did not keep the engine turning at least at 2700 rpm it was hopless on the slightest short incline and I had to downshift two gears at a time continually until the truck was just crawling over the crest of a short incline with the engine screaming. On a longer modest incline if I did not come into the steady climb at over 3400 rpm the engine just quickly lost power even though I was continually downshifting.

    With a heavy loaded Mack inline six diesel I could climb over a crest of a steep incline at 900 rpm after downshifting a couple of times. The inline has bottom end torque that the 8V92 did not have with its short V8 stroke.

    A wash machine engine would be acceptable if it does not need to do hard work. A V8 diesel does not have a long enough stroke to be a serious working diesel engine. Powerstroke and Duramax are the wrong configuration to be the best heavy load puller.

    Slick, I do not care if you are a Ford man and kid yourself about the greatness of V8 diesel engines. When a kid, I worked on a 1932 Ford Deuce Coup and I was a confirmed Ford enthusiast. My first two work trucks were Fords. I took me a bit of pounding my head on a brick wall before I realized that Dodge trucks have the best diesel engines. You see, I am just not foolish enough to get marrried to a vehicle manufacturer. Just because a person desires to have it a certain way to prove he is right does not make it fact. If the Powerstroke or Duramax do whatever job needed for you, that is great, but for us who want a serious hard working engine with lots of torque then the Dodge Turbo Diesel Cummins inline six engine is what we need. It is as simple as that and when I want a people mover a gasoline engine is good enough.

  • Jimmy B

    Okay everyone is dead set on Ford diesels.I use to be till I got a 2004 Excursion diesel.I love the power and loved the dealer till the warranty ran out and found out they were cleaning my EGR every time I took for a complaint and then I was left hanging with 2 months out of warranty and got stuck with a tow bill and stuck egr. I will buy a cummins next time.One day Ford will get it right.

  • Jimmy B

    I have a 6.0 that we only by groceries in and pull a camper once a year.I cant keep it out of the shop.I will wait or buy a cummins.And no I do not idle it as dealer says I do when that eger sticks and leaves me stranded with 76000 miles.

  • marco Bianchi

    i was a loyal ford buyer since i started my business in 1993 i bought ford trucks for my plumbing jobs great trucks , in 2004 i renewed my fleet , i did a terrible mistake from 6 trucks 5 trucks were in the shop at least 1 or 2 times every two weeks what a nightmare , now some are out of warranty then what just looking at what parts cost , i will go broke with these trucks , 1200 for changing a egr tube ,its nuts
    will never buy a ford again in my life.

  • Floyd Young

    Well, I have scanned the entire above article relating the supposed virtues of the 2011 6.7 liter V-8 Power Stroke diesel engine without noticing any indication given for the horse power and torque developed at specific engine speeds. In the newspaper it says, “What this 6.7L V-8 turbocharged diesel engine also brings to the Super Duty equation is a staggering 735 foot-pounds of torque and 390 horsepower.” There is no mention of what rpm that the HP and Torque are developed at. What is Ford trying to hide from the truck buying public?

    Dodge reports their 6.7L inline six CTD produces 350 HP @ 3000 rpm and 650 ft-lbs @ 1500 rpm.

  • Jagged Guyette

    After driving and maintaining three 2008 6.4 liter F550’s with 5 spd automatics for the last 2 years I am looking forward to this new design from Ford. Our three trucks get no better than 8 miles per gallon in a mix of city and freeway driving, and one of the drivers is known for driving VERY slow and not stomping on the accelerator when the light turns green. Each truck is loaded to 16,500 to 17,000 lbs gross.

    For comparison I drove a 1999 F550 with the 7.3 and a 4EOD trans and averaged 12 to 14 in the same type of driving and same weight range. I was known for flooring the pedal at every green light and doing 80 mph on California freeways. My point is that the current trucks get AWEFULL fuel milage. My company’s Freightliner M2’s with Mercedes’ Inline 6 Diesels and 5 spd automatics get 11 to 12 mpg and they are rated to 26,000 ponds gross and weigh 21,000 in ready to work trim. The Mercedes Diesel is rated at ONLY 210hp at rediculously low rpm. The 550’s are faster in a drag race but who cares? In every aspect but acceleration the Mercedes engine is as good or better. The 6’s are also much easier to service. Replacing the frame mounted fuel /water seperator/filter is an excercise in frustration on the Fords, especially when the wiring harness that hinders removal could so easily have been mounted 8″ or 10″ further rearward with ease.

    I have been a big fan of Fords for a very long time, but my patience with the 6.0/6.4’s is waring thin. I think I speak for a lot of Ford owners and drivers in stating that Ford needs to get back to reliability and REAL TRUCK PERFORMANCE. I really do not care about making 350 to 400 hp in my work Diesel. For that matter 325hp may not even be necessary. How about capping the horsepower at 300 and making it at the lowest rpm reasonable? How about making the engine and trans easier to work on? How about making the engine as reliable as a 32oz Vaughn? That is a hammer for all those truck buyers who just want to look cool but never plan on putting anything but a dog and a snowboard in the bed. What if Ford engineers concentrated on anvil reliability and low fuel consumption along with super low emissions? I realize that buyers want to see numbers, but people drive torque wether they know it or not. Make a 275 hp 6 or 8 that grunts out 850 ft/lbs of torque and redlines at 3500 to 3750 rpm and mate it to the 5 spd auto or a 6 spd manual and you have a winning combo. Add the SCR to reduce emissions and it gets even better. If I want high rpm horsepower I’ll ride a motorcycle.

    I am not giving up on Ford. If I want a cheap cab, crappy trans and gawdy looks then I will consider a Dodge. Chevy trucks are not bad. But they are not Ford. Step up and do it right Ford. A lot of loyalists are counting on you.

  • Floyd Young

    Jagged Guyette, thank-you for the honest evaluation about Ford Super Duty trucks writen by a trucker who appears to be hung up on that particular vehicle manufacturer. Your accurate critical evaluation of Ford V8 diesel engines installed in their trucks has more credibility because your reported experiences are from someone whose company substantially works their units. It takes and honorable man to admit shortcomings in their choice of vehicles. Self-promotional accolades from owners who just use their trucks as light duty passenger and luggage conveyances is of no value to me to determine the merits of a working unit.

    I didn’t give up on Ford trucks for a number of years either, that is until I swallowed my pride and looked at the Cummins inline six cylinder diesel engine in Chrysler Corporation trucks. I would also be satisfied if all light duty pickup trucks used an inline six cylinder gasoline engine like in the old days, instead of a V6 or V8 engine powering the units having a cargo box. We use our 1500 GMC with a 4.3 liter V6 as a passenger unit in the winter snow because it is higher off the ground and has Good Year Wrangler Silent Armor grip tires installed.

    I am not a mechanical engineer, nor a mechanic so I have to use the engine specifications to determine how an engine will perform in a practical real world every day work situation. Cylinder bore and crankshaft stroke numbers reveal how the engine will function under various heavy work duties. I don’t even consider horse power ratings as valid because I don’t run a work truck engine at those high rpms where HP figures are derived. High rpms consume too much fuel and lugging an engine is detrimental. Another thing to consider is the testimony of the transport truck industry in exclusively operating units with inline six diesel engines. I drove an old Peterbilt with an 8V92 two-stroke screaming Jimmy V8 which was no match for grunt torque developed by the inline engines. Mack inline diesel engines had the most bottom end torque, I found.

    Ford will not readily report the new engine’s speed where the V8’s highest peak torque and HP are developed nor show a torque curve that I can find. A torque curve graph realistically shows how an engine will function under load. I sure appreciate my Dodge CTD when pulling a load while climbing a long incline in the mountains. The 5.9 liter Cummins inline six computer controlled engine has so much low rpm torque that I have to keep my eye on the pyrometer in order to know when to downshift or else the engine would go on steadily laboring and destroy itself from too high a temperature developed on the melting aluminum pistons. The no problem experience I am having with my newly purchased Dodge in 2005 and the good mileage obtained is endearing the truck to me. I only use the unit for pulling runs.

    I have driven a Ford with the 7.3 V8 and it functioned not too bad, but it’s not an engine I would consider owning. I have not tried operating any other Ford Power Stroke diesel engines. The same goes for the GM Duramax that I operated.

    BMW automaker reveals the engine speed for corresponding ft-lb and HP values so why is Ford not listing their torque and horse power with the related engine speeds for their new 6.7 liter Power Stroke diesel engine? Regarding my Dodge CTD 3500, which I consider the best money I spent for a diesel work unit, the cab is solidly holding together, free of squeaks rattles and drafts on rough roads. It is comfortable when loaded and the G56 tranny functions fine. I have to admit when empty it is not as smooth riding as a GMC diesel, but the Dodge work suspension holds a load up better then the GMC diesel.

  • corey

    I own a 2011 F250 Super Duty with the diesel. I can not pull a 3,500 lb. boat without the thing going into a saftey mode. I need to pull over and shut off the air conditioner for a while. No alarms and no answers for problem.

  • karl

    I have been a farmer all my life and have used and worked with many diesel engine types, including overhauls and rebuilds on older engines. I still farm, but also work in management at a world class food company. The complexity of diesel engines and their emmision controls now exceeds gas engines because of EPA emissions requirements, which has already been stated by one other person here as the reason that the old Ford 7.3 diesel was discontinued.

    All of our newer farm equipment and semi tractors at home happens to have Cummins engines. Our largest tractor with a 15 liter engine with peak power at 483 HP, and torque at 1700 ft/lbs. At full power at 2000 RPM, this tractor burns 23 gallons/hour (dashboard indicates real time fuel use), and this fuel use drops as RPMS’ drop based on a computer guided fuel curve. At peak torque (about 1300 RPM), the fuel use is just 17 gallons per hour. So we pick a gear that is somewhere just above the torque peak so as loads increase and RPMS drop a little, torque is rising. Yes, you can pull this engine 24/7/365 at near full load, but keeping it at about 90% power is more efficient. On our combined group of 6 Cummins engines with over 35,000 hours, the only component ever changed was a water pump, and that was on bad advice.

    Old mechanical fuel systems simply pumped a set amount of fuel per injector pump revolution (governed), and the injectors popped off when the internal springs allowed that to happen. Once an injector starts to blow the full load of fuel into the compressed air in the cylinder, combustion commences. As mechanical type fuel systems age, 2 things happen; the internal injector springs pop off too soon advancing the timing, and the fuel spray pattern from the injector tips turns from a mist to larger droplets due to hole wear. Increased particulate matter in the exhaust is just 1 indicator of a degraded fuel injector system. If you followed mfr recommendations, the injectors got pulled every 1500 to 2000 hours, and were rebuilt so they popped off at the right pressure again. That injector rebuild prevented “washing-down” of the cylinder walls with large droplets diesel fuel, and very quick engine failure due to higher heat, and the dilution of engine oil with diesel fuel. Pulling injectors from a tractor with easy top-end access is a job for someone with basic mechanical skills. Pulling injectors from a pickup with an engine crammed into a tiny hole is a job for a litte person.

    Today’s electro-mechanicl fuel injectors used in all new diesels can deliver multiple events of fuel at very high pressure, even during the combustion process. This lowers emmisions and reduces exhaust temperatures. However, injectors operating at this high of pressure can be prone to failure simply from high cycle counts, even though manufacturers of diesel injectors spec internal parts in microns (1/10,000 inch). So, instead of a complete engine rebuild and poor emmisions when a mechanical system ages, you get to put in high dollar electo-mechanical injectors instead. It really is a trade off if you are not capable of anything mechanical. A new long block 7.3 installed will set you back about $18,000. Don’t let a fuel system problem continue, ever.

    Currently, I own a ’99 Ford F-250 4wd with a 5.4 gas engine with 185,000 miles, and my brother owns a ’99 Ford F-250 4wd with a 7.3 diesel engine with 186,000 miles. Until we went to semi-trailers, we used to pull loaded grain wagons with a gross weight of 48,000 lbs in low-lock 4wd on asphalt pavement for up to 10 miles with these trucks at slow speeds. Under the same conditions, he burned 25% less fuel. With just basic maintenance, combined, we have had 1 breakdown in 371,000 miles which left us sitting along the road. He had the cam position sensor fail on his engine.

    Ford’s 6.0 and 6.4 seem to be a complete failure when you reference the above kind of numbers from my own experience with Cummins agricultural applications, and a documented Ford history.

    The gentleman that has the new diesel and can’t pull a 3,500 lb boat needs to take it back to Ford until they fix it. My personal experience a 11 year old gas or diesel Ford motor would pull almost 14 times that weight and not even have a hiccup.

    Manufacturers such as Navistar (International) and Cummins have the expected life of their engines listed on their websites. Most are either 400,000 miles or 1,000,000 miles. I doubt you will ever see that data for the new Ford engine.

  • Bobby

    Love the debate. Own a F350 w/6.0 and 190,000 miles. Only issue was a broken wire and a bad sensor. Power is ok but not like the 7.3. I work in the oil patch and if you have a working truck it is a Dodge or a Ford. Those that watch (like inspectors or supervisors) drive Chev. Working folk tend to stick with either of the working trucks. The sit and watch crowd sit and watch from the Chevs. ( they must have good heaters)

    I would agree right now is a good time to be on the sidelines and I will drive the 6.0 till it turns to dust. When the new Ford is proven or Dodge gets the carbon control thing in hand I will be back in.

    The road to higher ground is littered with broken Chevs.

  • Floyd Young

    Well, Ford advertises a torque value of 735 ft-lbs for the new 6.7 Power Stroke. Without a torque curve graph any number means nothing without and indication of high torque duration. Ford, please quit dazzling the truck buying public with high torque numbers alone. Dodge rated their 6.7 Cummins at 650 ft-lbs and to out do Ford the Cummins engineers put in another chip into the computer in order to rate the Cummins at 800 ft-lbs of torque. Next step they will upgrade the trubo-charger. What I like about the CTD is that the torque is developed at a low rpm and then stays at a high torque value as the engine rpm increases. Powerstroke developes maximum and sustains torque for a rather comparatively short interval as the engine rpm rises. Ford and GM have some good points about their trucks, but a V8 is not a real good diesel truck work engine.

    All our agricultural equipment and tandem trucks have inline six cylinder internal combustion engines. All the freight haulers use highway tractors which have I-6 configuration engines. Why Ford and GM like to deceive truck buyers is a mystery. Just like the issue of why Ford and GM uses rear brake drums in their pickups when my 2005 Dodge has four disc brakes. I have no problem with my rear disc brakes, but I am not an automotive engineer.

  • andy frato

    wow ive worked on alot of trucks in my opin ion the 7.3 pstroke was the best but this sounds amazing i cant wait to get my hands on one haha
    FORD RULES!!!

  • Floyd Young

    Andy Frato, many people who own Ford diesels claim the 7.3 liter powerstroke was the best diesel engine in Ford pickups. That may be true, but that is comparing the 7.3 L V8 with other Ford V8 diesel engines. Ford truck owners may think FORD RULES in the V8 diesel engine department, but then GM V8 diesel owners claim the Duramax is a better V8 diesel engine than Ford V8 diesel engines. I assume 1-6 diesel work engine are superior to V8 diesel work engines because the hauling industry and industrial work engines all use 1-6 engine configuration for their diesel work engines. I am in agriculture and all our equipment uses inline diesel engines. I read that John Deere tried V8 diesels in their equipment offered in the past and their agricultural manufacturing industry almost went belly up because of the issue of inferior performance and reliability experienced by farmers. Therefore, diesel truck buyers can fool themselves that V8 configuration engines are great diesel engines, but the real hard working truck owners know that inline engines are the best all round work engines. Being unbiased, I look for the best diesel engines and not according to the manufacturer’s name that offers diesel engines in their equipment.

    Andy, you can kid some of the people some of the time, but you can’t fool all the people all of the time. To each his own. A gasoline engine suits me fine in a light duty vehicle and many diesel pickup owners use their trucks for a run-a-bout anyway.